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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2855
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Posted - 2014.04.03 13:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a long time Swarm Launcher advocate I decided I could give better input into V/AV discussions if I was familiar with both sides of the balance issue. So I used an alt which had 6 million unallocated skill points to spec into HAVGÇÖs. I am also running stock Sicas on Fox, who has no skills in Vehicles whatsoever.
After about 3 weeks of tanking I am still not great, but I am good enough to have a feel for how it works.
Tanks as a form of AV:
YES, an experienced tanker can be effective in a stock Sica with militia modules without any tanking skills trained whatsoever.
BUT, an inexperienced tanker, with full skills and the most supped up tank available is probably going to die to the experienced tanker in the stock Sica.
Conclusion: HAVGÇÖs are not a viable AV option for infantry. HAVGÇÖs are only viable AV in the capable hands of an experienced tanker.
Swarm Launchers:
I still say that missile damage should be increased from 220 to 250 per missel. This morning I sat in my Sica watching someone shoot a Militia/Standard swarm launcher at me. Each volley would take down about 15% of my shields, and then my shields would passively regenerate to 100% before the next volley hit. He was not even warring me down. We could have kept that up for the entire match.
Proto swarms are a bit better as they can kill my tank if I get stuck on a rock or something, but usually they are not a problem unless they are teamed up with several other AV. Even with Proto swarms I usually donGÇÖt bother activating my hardeners unless I get stuck on something. Instead I usually just drive over a hill or behind a building.
Conclusion: Swarms need a small damage buff. 12% should be just about right.
Change of Large Rail Turret range from 600m to 300m:
This was a good solution to the Red Line Rail Tank problem. When I first played after the change I thought 300m was a bit too short. I thought that maybe 360m might have been better. But now that I am getting used to the range, 300m is still plenty to gain a range advantage over Blaster Tanks. All and all, this was probably a good change.
Conclusion: The 50% nerf to Large Rail Turret range was a good thing, although some Rail Tankers may legitimately argue that a 40% nerf (360m) would have been sufficient.
Nerf to Active Hardeners:
The Nerf to Active Hardeners was probably a good thing from a V/AV balance perspective. Hardeners still do the job in defending against AV. They donGÇÖt do the job when defending against other Tanks though. Vehicle Damage Mods should have been nerfed at the same time as Hardeners where. I am starting to get tired of getting 3 shotted by Damage Mod tanks while I have my hardeners on.
Conclusion: The Hardener nerf was good for V/AV balance, but now Vehicle Damage Mods need a corresponding nerf.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2859
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Wrong abouta HAV. The player who has a mil rail tank with dmg mods wins. There is just no way to maneuver fast enough around them or avoid them unless the oerson is a bad shot. He who blindsides wins.
I am not quite sure what you guys are going on about? Did you actually read my post? I donGÇÖt think I said what you think I said.
Of course a double Damage Mod Rail Tank can kill just about any other setup... if the person operating that tank can find the enemy tank, remember to turn the damage mods on, and land the three shots required to kill the enemy tank.
But an Infantry player running a tank for the first time will not know the map the way they thought they did. Everything is on a different scale. What qualifies as cover for a tank is a lot different than what Infantry looks for as cover. Tanks move faster than infantry. The main travel routs and the shortcuts are different. They will be slowly turning the turret to look around rather than turning the whole tank, because using the right joy stick to look around is what they are used to. Their situational awareness will completely suck.
Basically what would happen is the Infantry player in a Tank for the first time would see the enemy tank (if he gets lucky), and activate his damage modes (if he remembers). Then on the first shot the perspective would switch because he is pressing a little too hard on R3. This will throw him off, and in the half second it takes him to recover from the confusion the enemy tank will have run behind cover. The Infantry player in the tank will advance hopping to get the kill before the Damage Mods run out. The Experienced tanker will circle around behind him and take him out with 3 shots to the engine block.
Or more likely the new tanker in the double damage mod tank will die multiple times without ever seeing the tank that killed him.
Experienced Tanker > New Tanker no matter what the fit. (Unless he gets lucky.)
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2860
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Yeah, I have to disagree with you on that one; you might be using the wrong fittings, Fox.
Stock Sica + 2x damage mods + whatever you can fit in the lows = ultimate tank destroyer, especially for shields.
Wait until he comes around a corner and gank him.
I can't think of a fitting that would survive two damage mods on an MLT rail at point blank range anymore.
The trick with tanking with a cheapie is that you have to be a lot more cunning.
I also don't feel that swarms need a damage buff anymore, especially since they break my regen even when hardened. A range buff I could see my way to supporting, but not a damage buff.
A nerf to armour repairers would be in order, however.
As far as I can tell the only thing we disagree on is my proposed buff to swarm launchers.
Where did I say anywhere in my post that Stock Sica + 2x damage mods could not kill tanks? Nowhere in my post did I say that the Sica was not a good tank.
What I am saying is that someone who has never played tanks has about as much chance of survival in ANY tank, as someone who has never played an FPS has of surviving in a full Proto infantry suit against experienced Infantry. Basically a snowballGÇÖs chance in Hell.
I am saying that it is disingenuous for experienced tankers to suggest that calling in a tank is a viable AV option for a dedicated infantry player, because without tanking experience there is no way they will be able to use the tank effectively. They would just be free kills for the experienced tankers. What these tanks who suggest that actually mean, wether they realize it or not, is that all Infantry players should spend a month learning to be good tankers so that they can use Tanks for AV.
I was tanking for two weeks before I managed to kill another tank in a 1 v 1 situation, and that was probably more luck than skill.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2860
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Regarding your very last statement, here's the correction: damage mod rail tank > any tanker.
What if the Damage Mod Rail Tank is facing the other way and responds to you shooting it in the engine block by trying to turn its turret rather than turning the whole tank?
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2860
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Posted - 2014.04.03 15:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Wrong abouta HAV. The player who has a mil rail tank with dmg mods wins. There is just no way to maneuver fast enough around them or avoid them unless the oerson is a bad shot. He who blindsides wins.
I think what really pisses me off about this post is that he says I am Wrong and then his counter argument completely agrees with everything I said.
My point was that a player who is new to tanks will almost never get an opportunity to blind side anyone, unless they are very lucky. I was talking about real battlefield conditions, not two people dueling in an open field and waiting for the pretty girl to drop the handkerchief before they start firing. I never said anything about tank v tank balance except that Damage Mods are too strong after the Hardener nerf, but everyone seems to agree with me on that.
This thread got completely derailed on quibbling over something I did not say in the first place. 
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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